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razielimAfter reading about TheoryofFicGate earlier, I was reminded of my own mini controversy on Ao3 back in 2016. Went back to read all the comments, and reading them, realized it was finally time to also delete all the comments. Let them go. I've been holding on to the hurt of that for a while now.
Since I've been poking around other people's journals so much in the past week, looking to meet new people, I've noticed how many people have put up statements granting blanket permission to make fanworks of their fanworks. Never seen these statements of Ao3 or tumblr, but they seen to abound on DW.
I don't know where I fall on that issue. I'm reading Fanlore's entry on Recursive Fanfiction (aka fic of fic) and thinking "Right, that's normal and fun." I do think it's normal and fun to have people spin off from one another! But that page talks a lot about permission from the fic author and building a story within their world. There's a related page, Unauthorized Sequel, and that hits closer to what had happened to me. Someone took my tragic unrequited noncon story and made a happy lovey dovey ending epilogue.
I think I'd be a lot less hurt if it happened again today. I'm in a better place mentally; I'm also just less attached to my writing and don't use it to self-medicate myself with serotonin as I did at the time. I certainly worry that the author might have never dared to write anything ever again after all the drama that happened in the comments as other people got involved. Should I have stepped in for them more, and my own beef with their actions prevented me from doing the right thing? Maybe. Whatever the right thing to do back then had been, I also just don't think I'd ever give blanket permission for fic of fic after that experience. I know what could shake out of that tree, and I don't want to invite that upon my head.
It's not that I'm entirely opposed to fic of fic in general - I've since then had people write fics that were placed within the AUs I created, and I don't remember if they even asked for permission and I don't particularly care. I just checked out the fic summaries when I was notified, nodded, and moved on with my life. I've since had fanart of my fics and fic of my fanart, which I've delighted in.
All that stuff is just a whole different experience from that one fluff epilogue.
I don't know, I wonder.
I wonder how people who give blanket permissions would perceive such a sequel/epilogue if it fell into their comments one day. Would it just be par for the course, or is that something that others also don't typically expect if they haven't witnessed it or heard about it before? Does a more truly laisez-faire mindset reign in DW culture?
I would want the chance to be asked permission to write an epilogue, and to say, "Sure, but absolutely do not share it with me."
Maybe I'm more affected by the more recent/tumblr way of thinking in fandom than I realize, way too sensitive about something I'm putting out publicly, even if I remember a time before some of the more modern fandom ideas became became popular rhetoric and think myself above such sensitivities.
Reminds me of the Salvador Dali quote, "Do not strive to be a modern artist: it's the one thing, unfortunately, you can't help being."
There's so much that can be found on Fanlore about past fandom culture and kerfuffles, but the thing is that ultimately we live in the now and it affects us. We have only the cultures we have now. I don't think I can read on Fanlore about how it was normal to write and share sequels for a fic you read in a Star Trek zine without asking permission and be magically more okay with that happening to me on my Ao3 comment section. That's not how feelings work.
I can however, get plenty of sleep and do daily yoga, thereby slowly growing to be more okay with everything in general, so I guess it's time to pack it up and head out.
Since I've been poking around other people's journals so much in the past week, looking to meet new people, I've noticed how many people have put up statements granting blanket permission to make fanworks of their fanworks. Never seen these statements of Ao3 or tumblr, but they seen to abound on DW.
I don't know where I fall on that issue. I'm reading Fanlore's entry on Recursive Fanfiction (aka fic of fic) and thinking "Right, that's normal and fun." I do think it's normal and fun to have people spin off from one another! But that page talks a lot about permission from the fic author and building a story within their world. There's a related page, Unauthorized Sequel, and that hits closer to what had happened to me. Someone took my tragic unrequited noncon story and made a happy lovey dovey ending epilogue.
I think I'd be a lot less hurt if it happened again today. I'm in a better place mentally; I'm also just less attached to my writing and don't use it to self-medicate myself with serotonin as I did at the time. I certainly worry that the author might have never dared to write anything ever again after all the drama that happened in the comments as other people got involved. Should I have stepped in for them more, and my own beef with their actions prevented me from doing the right thing? Maybe. Whatever the right thing to do back then had been, I also just don't think I'd ever give blanket permission for fic of fic after that experience. I know what could shake out of that tree, and I don't want to invite that upon my head.
It's not that I'm entirely opposed to fic of fic in general - I've since then had people write fics that were placed within the AUs I created, and I don't remember if they even asked for permission and I don't particularly care. I just checked out the fic summaries when I was notified, nodded, and moved on with my life. I've since had fanart of my fics and fic of my fanart, which I've delighted in.
All that stuff is just a whole different experience from that one fluff epilogue.
I don't know, I wonder.
I wonder how people who give blanket permissions would perceive such a sequel/epilogue if it fell into their comments one day. Would it just be par for the course, or is that something that others also don't typically expect if they haven't witnessed it or heard about it before? Does a more truly laisez-faire mindset reign in DW culture?
I would want the chance to be asked permission to write an epilogue, and to say, "Sure, but absolutely do not share it with me."
Maybe I'm more affected by the more recent/tumblr way of thinking in fandom than I realize, way too sensitive about something I'm putting out publicly, even if I remember a time before some of the more modern fandom ideas became became popular rhetoric and think myself above such sensitivities.
Reminds me of the Salvador Dali quote, "Do not strive to be a modern artist: it's the one thing, unfortunately, you can't help being."
There's so much that can be found on Fanlore about past fandom culture and kerfuffles, but the thing is that ultimately we live in the now and it affects us. We have only the cultures we have now. I don't think I can read on Fanlore about how it was normal to write and share sequels for a fic you read in a Star Trek zine without asking permission and be magically more okay with that happening to me on my Ao3 comment section. That's not how feelings work.
I can however, get plenty of sleep and do daily yoga, thereby slowly growing to be more okay with everything in general, so I guess it's time to pack it up and head out.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 11:04 (UTC)Mostly my perception of the transformative works statement is people who want to make podfics look for them, and I love to have podfic of my work so I'm happy to allow that. More infrequently I see people wanting to make fanart or playlists based on a work looking for that permission.
But all of this is largely academic for me because, as I said, it doesn't happen for me. Maybe I'd have more and/or different feelings about it if I had a bad experience.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 16:04 (UTC)Oh, I see! Actually explains a lot. It makes perfect sense that a site with a more emphasized tradition for podfic would have front-and-center permissions for transformative works be more common. Transformative works in another medium seem to be the least controversial and the most encouraged.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 11:17 (UTC)I too have been working on my mental health but no, feelings don't work on/off and that whole experience made me very skittish about interacting in fandom, and more strict about curating my space than most people on DW.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 11:22 (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 16:30 (UTC)Unless you're being flooded with requests to remix and podfic, I guess...
I'd probably have to hit some really high threshold of more than one request a week though before I'd start looking into time/effort saving strategies.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 13:45 (UTC)This is a pretty chill hobby for me though, and I'm pretty much a nobody, so insert-shrug-emoji-here. If someone uses one of my ideas to make something that isn't my cuppa, that's fine and I legit hope they had fun doing it.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 16:46 (UTC)no subject
Date: 2022-01-06 21:41 (UTC)But I think that comes down to my relationship with my finished work. Because I'm not emotionally invested in it in an ownership way. Once I've posted it on the internet for other people to consume, its no longer mine (obviously, it is mine in the sense that I wrote it, but for me, that public sharing is also a surrendering of creative control over it).
I also personally feel like a hypocrite if I do restrict it (which is basically that old argument about "I stole these characters in the first place") - I can see the argument from the other side, I just don't tend to agree with it.
But yes, I have had art, translations, podfic, graphics, and fic all produced for my work (that I know of). Some people have asked, but my answer is always yes. Others have just done it. I'm fine with it; I don't mind being other people's inspiration and even follow on fic is something I view as independent to my original work anyway, so it doesn't affect what I intended to do with it.
Even plagiarism doesn't really bother me. Like, don't do it, it's a dick move and its lazy and all that, but it doesn't upset me. I guess, if anything, I see it as wierdly flattering that someone thought my work was good enough to steal?
(Yes, I have had it happen some years back, so that's not a hypothetical response)
Basically, my view on my fanfic is that I'm done with it and I made it open source when I threw it out there, so, fandom, have at it.
That said, I would only not ask another creator if I knew them really well and knew they would say yes. I'm aware most people don'r see it the way I see it.
Long answer is long...
no subject
Date: 2022-01-07 00:43 (UTC)Now that you mentioned it, I've always been pretty chill about having fics straight up plagiarized, so I guess I'm not quite as sensitive as I worry about being. *wipes brow*
no subject
Date: 2022-01-08 01:02 (UTC)I suppose perhaps plagiarism is different because that's not someone taking your idea and fucking with it, it's just flat out stealing. In many ways, it divorces the work from your original idea - they're not invested in (and retelling and changing) your story, they've just flat out stolen it for their own purposes. So, I guess it is different, maybe?
To caveat all of that, I'm really spitballing here, because its trying to make sense of how other people feel in a way I really can't relate to, because I've never felt that way (I had an open transformative policy long before formalising those was ever a thing). But it is interesting to think about.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-10 16:50 (UTC)I actually did empathize with the Anne Rices of the world when it happened! For the first time in my life got punched in the face with how they might feel. So I guess that was my moment to, as you say, "make sense of how other people feel in a way I really can't relate to." A doozy. Ironically, empathizing didn't really change my stance. Before, I was of the firm opinion that fanfic authors should not send their fanfics to authors/actors/etc. Now I just consider myself to also be someone who doesn't want to read fanfics of my fanfics, even if I know they theoretically exist somewhere. :D Consistency!
no subject
Date: 2022-01-10 23:55 (UTC)Although, now, I'm trying to remember who the author was who talked about being a not a snowflake about his writing, but a dragon. And like most dragons, he hoarded his pile of gold jealously, but that was it. So, his stance was "do as you will, but do not threaten my income" and I also thought that was a very reasonable stance for a professional canon creator to take on fandom.
But, overall, with the professional canon creators, I come back to "but you put it out there in the world (in return for financial recompense, no less). You sold it, and I'm not sure you get to complain about what people do with the thing for fun after you took their money for it...". Like, absolutely, we do not threaten the canon creators income, I'm really not okay with that, but, I dunno, I think they're missing a trick, honestly. There are so many canons that I have spent actual, real life pennies on as a result of having been introduced to it through fandom. I wonder how many other people that's true for.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-11 00:16 (UTC)Same with beautiful fanart. I still remember the art piece that got me into a particular fandom and where I was when I saw it. Whoooooo, nothing could have been so effective.
Would be cool to see research on that, though I imagine it's too messy to be feasible.
Edit: Oh, wait - right. This is precisely why people keep trying to commercialize fanfic, isn't it? So we're totally not imagining its effectiveness at marketing intellectual properties. Other people see it too, they just can't harness it without undermining it. So yeah, someone's definitely missing a trick if they believe fandom only has the potential to their drain income.
no subject
Date: 2022-01-11 16:30 (UTC)Other people see it too, they just can't harness it without undermining it.
Exactly this. Monetise it and you make it a job. Make it a job and people stop loving it. The whole pull of fandom creativity in a lot of ways is rooted in the fact that people love it enough to do it in their spare time and call it a hobby...